Ask GN 99: Worse Cooling with More Fans? Corporate Espionage?

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This Ask GN talks about corporate espionage, COM ports on motherboards in 2018,
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TIMESTAMPS

Corporate Espionage in PC Hardware?

01:33 – Ggchb Gig ghb: “Steve how much dose corporate spying/personnel buying happen in the hardware world? Can a struggling fab/manufacturer just hire someone from a successful one and get all the secret techniques?”

Why Do Boards Still Have COM Ports?

05:41 – Qlum: “Why do cheaper motherboards often include outdated connectors long gone from their more expensive counterparts. For example the Asrock A320M-DGS a bottom of the barrel motherboard has a com and a print port. […] It clearly costs money to solder the connector yet it is only included in the lower margin cheaper motherboard.”

Too Many Fans Makes Cooling Worse?

07:22 – Coby Rickey: “Can too many case fans actually make your pc cooling worse?”

Downsides of Moving?

09:37 – NoryYesterday: “#askgn-questions What is the one downside of moving out of the GN Lair and into a commercial office? (Outside of paying a lease, and moving)”

Are You Honest About Not Being Under NDA?

10:58 – David: “There have been a few videos where you said you were specifically not under any NDA, and Linus has also said that in a few instances. Of course you can only speak for yourself, but are you actually honest about that then (not calling you a liar, just because of the whole NDA) or would you say that exactly because the NDA doesn’t allow you to talk about it? I know, complicated question, or my language just sucks.”

NVIDIA GTX vs. RTX Language?

12:02 – Modzy : “#askgn-questions What do you think about Nvidia finally changing the GTX branding on select new models of GPU’s to “Geforce RTX”. I feel we have been stuck on the “Geforce GTX” band wagon for so long that im actually really glad they are finally changing things up again. And as a note, i really do hope they at some point re-start their numbering so we dont end up with 5 digit skews one day. Also, hope they bring back the “Ultra” branding one day.”

Thoughts on CaseLabs?

14:29 – Demonmit1: “#askgn-questions @Steve Burke what is your thoughts on the recent CaseLabs announcement that they are closing permanently?”

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Host: Steve Burke
Video: Keegan Gallick
hey everyone welcome back to another Astra and this is the third one we're shooting for this series of them for this week the bonus episode will be on patreon.com slash gamers Nexus will have another one on the main channel and we're traveling internationally for the Nvidia event and for Gamescom which is all public at this point so I will be traveling for that after that you can expect a lot of news and other tests and things like that as we finalize our move into the new space so we should have some actual benchmark content coming out aside from the case reviews we've just published but anyway as always leave your questions for next episode in the comment section below if you have them we have a couple good ones for this week so we'll get through those and hopefully you can post some good ones maybe about the gamescom announcements in the comment section below for the next set of episodes before that this video is brought to you by the EVGA CLC 280 liquid cooler people ask me how I keep cool during the summer with all this hair well I've tried a lot of different products and if you do exactly what I need many of them cause tangles or worse EVGA CLC 280 helps keep my core temperatures lower they're in hot benchmarking sessions the CLC 280 is price competitive and focuses on performance for value offering a 280 liquid cooler at an affordable price get yours at the link in the description below hair mounting kit sold separately so first note before starting these are back in stock the GN beer glass and cobalt blue with a gold trim around the edge it's on stored on cameras nexus net if you wanted up in the first round and they sold out because they did very quickly we now have them back in stock on the store as well as the mod mat still a couple of them there if you want to pick up a mod mat before the next round at which point we'll be waiting for the shipment to come in so the first question for this week is from GGC HB dig GHP who says Steve how much does corporate spine or a personnel buy and happen in the hardware world can struggling fabrics or manufacturers just hire someone from a successful one and get all the secret techniques that's a big problem and a big concern and there are a lot of very uninformed comments and reply to this question so corporate espionage in the PC world happens all the time theft of trade secrets happens all the time we talked about it in a hardware new episode kind of recently where I think it was the Wall Street Journal had this huge feature piece on corporate espionage theft of trade secrets that's the intellectual property between fabrication plants specifically between memory suppliers and memory manufacturers so extremely common and as far as can you just hire someone and get all the secret techniques some of the comments below yours talked about there are NDA's well yeah there are but that doesn't really stop anything ideally it would but that's not how the world works and of course you can also sue anyone who you want anyone you want doesn't mean that you're gonna be successful in it in these instances because a lot of this stuff is international it kind of depends on where the different parties are based of whether the lawsuits are successful for inter actual property theft and stuff like that so I want to go through some of the stuff I talked about in that hardware news episode just in case you missed it be a bit of a recap for those of you saw but one of the things we talked about was there are instances in the I think it was again the Wall Street Journal article they talked about instances where try to base companies were stealing intellectual property from Taiwan based counterparts in the same industry and there have been several recent lawsuits that actually put people behind bars for stealing information from one plant moving it to another or from one manufacturer moving it to another particularly in the semiconductor space so very common and a couple of these examples so there's Shanghai Holly micro electronics corporation which infiltrated TSMC or Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company which many of you are likely familiar with as they make a lot of the parts that we use in our end of PC hardware so the shanghai harley micro electronics corp infiltrated TSMC and in doing so they were able to illegally access quote reams of trade secrets so big problem there the employee was implicated in this corporate espionage was sentenced to a suspended 18-month prison term for IP theft and recently also microns been in the news for a lot of the same stuff where micron had an engineer who was recorded by UMC the company the very same one that just had a preliminary in function placed upon it for plates on micron in China and that engineer has now been indicted on charges of trade secret theft and as he moved from micron to UMC taking those secrets with him so very common UMC is a taiwan-based competitor in this instance the illegally taken documents were used to design chips for a different company which we talked about in the hardware news episode and it's a Chinese semiconductor company called Fujian jinhua and that's a circuit company Nonya which you may know for being the smallest of the nand makers and dram makers they make a lot of the cashing chips that go on SSDs so Nadia recently sued one of its engineers for supply and manufacturing photographs to another competing company and that one was one that Wall Street Journal reported as being China's at largest state-owned chip maker so it's very common for IP theft and and trade secret theft and things like that to occur in this industry and no NDA's don't just stop it magically it's not really how people generally try not to get caught and if they don't catch you then an NDA doesn't really matter so a very common great question though and that uh that that article that we talked about the hardware news episode previously is a very good read if you're curious about that stuff it's very interesting very interesting comment read through next one Q Lamar clumb who says why did cheaper motherboards often include outdated connectors long gone from their more expensive counterparts for example the asrock 8320 md gsa bottom-of-the-barrel motherboard has a calm and a printer port it clearly costs money to solder the connector yet it is only included in the lower margin cheaper motherboard being cheaper doesn't mean it's lower margin necessarily but so we've talked about this before but when we last asked the motherboard contacts we have about this motherboard makers have in the past told us that a lot of this depends on the region they're targeting for the board so legacy ports make a lot of sense on boards that are being sold in manufacturing heavy regions like China and Taiwan where a lot of the machinery that they use is still hooked up via something like calm and they want that port there so last time we asked about this it was sort of a ton in cheek like why is that there but it was a good answer and it was because their customers and other regions do actually need those ports so that is a big consideration a lot of the factories still run on older i/o interfaces serial comm are also very useful for debug and sometimes it gets left on there I don't know if it's just cheaper or what but another example is in the rapid what is it called pick-and-place machines those I don't know if they sort of spool it up for something and then they just keep putting them on the boards because it's cheaper to rearrange everything than it is to pull the common serial stuff out of there but either way it seems like the region-specific stuff is more of the consideration last time we asked that anyway and that was a couple years ago but same idea tobe Ricky said can too many case fans actually make your PC cooling worse yes definitely especially if they're not configured in a good way so this was a good example of this would be something like even the half acts an older case that was pretty airflow focused putting fans on the top in the wrong orientation should be intake or exhaust will definitely hurt your performance you start ending up with vortexes forming sometimes where the hotter air will recirculate so the BitFenix and so is a good recent example of this that we showed where because the front panel is completely closed off the fan actually the fan mounted to the front because they can't get access to air from outside it actually ends up pulling air in from inside the case so after the hairs been warmed up and generally blown out of like the GPU or the the back of the CPU cooler although generally that more of a radiative heat issue off the back of the video card it's pulling air from there because it can't get air anywhere else so all the pressures just it's sucking air forward through the case up into an intake fan and getting pushed back into the case and so having a fan to high up in that area the front of the case and so did end up with much worse thermals and that's an example of where where that can occur also if you end up doing something like again top exhaust so let's say you want to fill all your fan boards at least the ones on the top and you have maybe three intake and three top exhaust something like that the exhaust towards the front of the case if it's a tower air cooler will steal more air from the front intake then it will help with getting rid of warm air so if you think of this as the front of the cases as a top air comes in and gets pulled out immediately as it enters so it never makes it to the CPU tower cooler typically for exhaust fans on the top if you're gonna have them we like to have them behind the CPU cooler because that's where the warm air is not in front of it because it doesn't actually help unless you really need some pressure to pull the area and maybe if you have a bottom intake you'd some pressure at the top to pull the air up and through the cooler but otherwise that's pretty uncommon scenario except for like the rvs RV o – or something like that definitely – many fans can make cooling a lot worse next one nori said what is the one downside as if there's one of moving out of the GN layer and into a commercial office outside of Payne for a lease and moving the Moving's actually been an upside because it's allowed us to rearrange things the way I want from scratch rather than have to work within the confines of stuff that's been there for a decade so that types you've been an upside so I was doing inventory stuff like that so we know what we have and give us some more content ideas things like that have had a lot of content ideas come out of the move because I've seen all this stuff where it's like oh yeah we have that and that would be really cool to do something with downsides probably Internet's a bit of a downgrade it's not that bad so well it's bad in terms of price but it's not as bad in terms of the upload download we can't get as much upload download I've gigabit for residential and that's significantly more expensive for commercial so tight bit of a downgrade there fortunately the server side of things like YouTube does bottleneck anyway so if residential is a gigabit the most we ever got out of YouTube was 300 megabits up which is a lot but it would tend to average closer to 200 or 250 so you don't you having a gigabit unless you're pushing uploads to multiple servers at once didn't really matter all that much it's really a couple hundred megabits you want ideally so internets probably the biggest one though and then David asked there have been a few videos where you said you were specifically not under NDA any NDA and – has also said that in a few instances of course you can only speak for yourself but are there are you actually honest about that or would you say that exactly because the NDA doesn't allow you to talk about it so when I say we're not under an NDA it's honest because there's no reason not to say for know how to hurt an NDA there's no obligation not to say that if you're an under NDA you either don't address the question or there's specific language in the NDAA that says what you can and can't talk about and it doesn't make any sense if you're under one to say you're not under one it makes more sense to ignore the question or answer it in some other way so yeah if I say I'm not under an NDA it's that's accurate generally we're probably under some kind of embargo for something that most times but you know if you're specific with the question then if I'm not under one I'll let you know I think line of same thing for him based on the times I've seen him talk about it but I can't can't speak for him obviously mod Z says what do you think about Nvidia finally changing the GTX branding on selects new models of GPUs 3 – GeForce RTX I feel we've been stuck on GeForce GTX before so long I'm actually really glad they're finally changing things up as a note I really do hope they at some point start read restart the numbering system so we don't end up with 5 digit skews one day and I hope they bring back the ultra branding yeah 8800 Ultra was a really good card and the last time I remember seeing that Brandon and I meaningful way five digits cues aren't gonna happen I don't think probably they'll restart the numbering just like they have done several times previously for all these companies so I wouldn't worry about that GeForce r-tx versus GTX is part of Nvidia's push to make ray-tracing the next big thing they've they've been talking about ray tracing for decades at this point but the company it's Nvidia specifically brought up ray tracing I think in a 2012 or 2013 keynote that I covered where Tony Tomas he still had on video today did a keynote and talked about ray tracing being on target for real-time rendering real-time rendering of ray tracing by 2015 miss the boat on that one but not too far off so it looks more like 2018-2019 will have some form of real-time ray tracing rendering it's just it's it kind of depends on how many traces you're taking and how many samples you're taking they're doing stuff like denoising to improve the performance so depending our definition of real-time ray tracing it's kind of here anyway RT X is a further push by Nvidia to make ray tracing the next big thing and ray tracing can actually use tensor cores like what the Titan V has so that's a bit interesting because previously you see tensor core you just assume it's only for deep learning machine learning nothing Iles but it can be used for ray tracing so might see some of those on the GTX equivalent cards but not positive yet we'll know more in the future RT X is I think going to be a hard name to get used to for me because I've been calling on the GTX for so long GTX sounds better but I guess RT X is what we're gonna call it if it's Nvidia's new ray tracing targeted whatever they're trying to do with it I is all just branding and the Nvidia is trying to establish ray trace and as the thing to be excited about because I guess you always need something new to be excited about with any new processor if it's just it plays games better than I don't know maybe that gets boring to them at some point and then the last one daemon met one says what are your thoughts on the recent case labs announcement that they are closing permanently pretty sad we got in one of their SMA eights like I don't know a couple weeks before that was announced so they probably knew that it was gonna close at that point or we're getting close to it anyway so we'll do something with the case it'll it'll be more of a post-mortem at this point but definitely the case that was made high quality stuff business model was a bit rough everything is extremely expensive it's meticulously made and it's just I don't you can't have a giant audience that I think they said they had 20,000 customers or something like that which is pretty damn good but sad to lose a smaller and innovative company in the space it's just I think it was kind of a mix of things like the tariffs they claims really increase their metal prices stuff like that I believe it based on what we've seen so tariffs didn't help them and then the business model in general was targeted to pretty expensive stuff and so your audience audience size will shrink over time if there's not a really compelling reason to buy that kind of thing because the problem with making products that lasts forever is that people don't buy nuance let's problem logitech used to have with the g5 Mouse and if if it just lasts for years and years and you don't need to buy another case ever then the audience for them is is going to be some somewhat transient so that's it for this one leave your questions in the comment section below as always thanks for watching go to store documents access net to pick up one of our GN beer glasses in cobalt blue with the gold trim or one of our mod mats or shirts and subscribe for more I'll see you all next time

Ask GN 99: Worse Cooling with More Fans? Corporate Espionage?

34 thoughts on “Ask GN 99: Worse Cooling with More Fans? Corporate Espionage?”

  1. I work for Micron and can't even bring my phone into work. Have to go through metal detectors going in and out. Security people all over the place asking me where I'm going and why. It's a colossal pain in the ass to get even the most basic things done now. Thanks China….

  2. Re the legacy ports, serial has never died, many many devices use it, and even more so in the maker communities and industrial world, not just in china.
    Many of these devices now feature a built in serial to USB chip (eg: the FT232RL) but outwardly appear as just a plain USB device.
    I like having a 9 pin serial port on my motherboard (or at least a header) but most other people won't need one.

  3. Been waiting forever to see real-time hdr radiosity with ample rays and reflections, but also dreading it. I mean most AAA game houses will use it correctly, but indy games could become a mess.

  4. #AskGN I've just ordered a 1440p monitor, but I spend my time roughly equally between gaming and watching Youtube/Netflix, which is obviously mostly 1080p.
    My question is, will 1080p content look worse on a 1440p monitor than a 1080p monitor?
    My theory is that it will, because it's not an integer multiplier. There's 1/3rd more physical pixels than input pixels. So to spread evenly, you'd essentially have every 3rd and 4th pixel showing the same thing. (I'm talking just in 1 dimension for simplicity, but obviously applies in both).
    Hope this makes sense, what I'm saying is that if you numbered every pixel going down the side of the 1080p input feed, the way it would display on the 1440p is 1, 2, 3, 3, 4, 5, 6, 6, 7, 8, 9, 9 etc. resulting in a weirdly, unevenly stretched picture.
    Obviously you don't get this problem with 1080p to 4K because it's a straight doubling (quadrupling in 2D) of everything.

    Can you shed any extra light on this? Is my theory correct or way off? Thanks 🙂

  5. Hey Steve #GamersNexus Can you do a test/video on this question situation. I have a I7 4970 on a z97 with 1080s in SLI. I game at 4k60 but plan on buying a 4k120 or 4k144vs monitor when prices come down. So my question is it how will a SLI setup be impacted on something like a 8700k with 16 PCI lanes when adding a NVMe SSD? Is it may be worth looking at a second hand x299 system or something that can handle more PCI lanes? If you can do a video with a SLI setup before and after adding a NVME drive and compare results? Appreciated

  6. Here's one thing I wanted to ask in today's tech is buying a sound card and ethernet card required. if you go back a few years some would say buy a sound card to off load the CPU cycles which would give your more performance in games for sound as well and CPU. But with all the cores we have now are sound cards at least redundant unless your making or editing music??

  7. #AskGN Since nail polish can be used to protect capacitors from liquid metal around a cpu die, do you think it would be possible to actually coat a copper heatsink or block plate with a light coat of nail polish when using liquid metal in place of thermal paste in order to protect against the alloy and drying problem that liquid metal seems to have? Or, would the nail polish add a terrible layer of thermal conductivity and ruin the point of using liquid metal in the first place? Experiment?

  8. #AskGN
    Hey, Steve could you do an in depth video about overclocking a Ryzen non X chip such as a R7 2700 to perform like a 2700x?
    Could you also go in depth about overclocking memory and setting up X.M.P or manually tuning your timings?
    My reasoning for asking these questions is because I have an R7 2700 on a Gigabyte Aourus x470
    Gaming 5 Wifi with 16gb of 3200mhz Trident Z; I can't get my CPU to 4.1ghz or higher no matter what I try
    and I feel like my voltage settings may be to high, I also can't get my system to be stable with 3200mhz
    on my ram. I've looked on the internet about overclocking my CPU but most of the time I only got
    links to overclocking the 2700x and I just don't trust those suggestions as much as I would trust yours.
    (Most of them gave me a blue screen)
    BIOS: F3g

    My current bios settings are:
    (for some reason I dont have as much settings in my bios as on older X370 or other X470 boards, labeled as displayed in bios)

    CPU:
    Overclock tuner: auto
    CPU Clock Control: 100.70mhz
    Host Clock Value:100.70mhz

    CPU clock Ratio: 39.50
    CPU Frequency: 3.97

    X.M.P: off
    System memory Multiplier: 31.33
    Memory frequency 3154mhz

    Voltage:
    Dynamic Vcore(DVID): +0.300V
    Dynamic VCORE SOC(DVID): +0.282V
    CPU VDDP +0.480V
    CHIPSET CORE 1.05V: 1.070V
    DRAM Voltage (CH A/B): Auto
    DRAM Termination (CH A/B): Auto

    Memory:
    X.M.P: off
    System memory Multiplier: 31.33
    Memory frequency 3154mhz
    Memory Timing mode: Auto
    profile DDR Voltage: 1.2V
    (everything else is set to auto)

    PC overlords do not judge meh plz
    ;-;

  9. 13:50 Either you have different information regarding the role of tensor cores or my information is overhauled.
    To my knowledge, Nvidia fires a few thousand rays, then fills in the rest of the image via traditional rasterization. The Tensor cores then make the seems between raytraced and rasterized part of the image disappear.

    So it is "rasterizied image may contain raytracing" rather than "all new 100% raytraced image".

  10. ASK GN : Random thought, aware all you can do is speculate but… Do you think with Intel's 10nm issues & the recent news from GLOFO, any possibility of Intel skipping 10nm and using TSCM's 7nm process for a new architecture?

  11. Crazy question about the case fan thing. I have a Thermaltake Overseer with 2x 200mm top fans in exhaust, 1x 200mm side fan intake, 1x 200mm front intake, 1x 140m rear exhaust. Am I causing a issue with this setup? Should I perhaps change the front to exhaust and the top to intake?

  12. Ask GN: two Questions

    Do you compared the diverent Liquid Metals?

    Is it normal for soldered CPUs to loose thermal Condutivity over Time and what is the problem?

    I delided a old E8500 3.16GHz ( soldered Core2Duo) an applied LM and got much better OC results. But why?

  13. #AskGN I recently had my Enermax LiqTech TR4 360 AIO fail (runs around 86 centigrade on the cpu if left alone), it is very likely to be full of corrosion (very little flow, pump is fine). Turns out I'm not alone, 1/3 of the Amazon reviews was 1 star and these things seem to quite reliably fail after a couple of months. I was wondering how yours is doing and whether this could be addressed to inform possible buyers?

  14. Have you ever had a sata drive kill a motherboard? I thought it was a fluke when it happened the first time and figured I just had a bad mobo. I replaced the mobo and had it working perfect until I shut down the system and plugged up the sata drive I planned to use for storage. The main HD is a 960 pro nvme. As soon as I turned the pc on with the sata drive plugged up the system began rapidly cycling on and off and killed the second mobo before I could unplug the sata drive. This is a new out of the box Western Digital drive I have not even been able to format it yet.

  15. #AskGN
    Where would one go to obtain detailed information on the overall build design, components used and various other intricacies of the custom, partner graphics card PCBs? Follow up, I'm asking because I was wondering if the design of the board itself and the quality of the components used, would have at least some impact on the levels of coil whine and Its existence.

  16. Hi GN, always used soldered parts in past so new to de-liding. Decided to start with cheaper parts in case I bricked something. I bricked a $60 GPU. Missed maybe 1mm of the die. Visual artifacts resulted. The techno geek partner was +++ understanding and totally didn't rage. It taught me that double and triple checking is a must before first boot. I find liquid metal hard to see and perceive so checking coverage and thickness is a challenge. My understandings of physics would suggest that a chemical compound shouldn't age without a distinct chemical change. I.e if it's liquid at room temperature then unless it's taken down in temp far enough, it isn't going to re-solidify right? So cracking shouldn't really be an issue. Does a conductivity value of a substance change over the kind of time we're talking? Sure geological time maybe but a few years? #askGN

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