P2 – Im Looking! Hashim & Jordan (Agnostic) | Speakers Corner | Hyde Park

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Brother Hashim speaks to Jordan a visitor to the park who is seeking the truth!

*Request to all to please not abuse or swear in comments, Dawah is to invite not to insult. Jazak Allah Khair

Disclaimer: The views and opinions of partakers in these debates and videos in no way represent the views of SCDawah but are a representation of what takes place at speakers Corner.
and his foot and then I realized the code in English is good is good and the etymology for thought was once came from the world good and if I think God once meant simply good and it was just about doing good and who is trying to get people to do good with other actions when did that message I think it's the it comes down to the free will that God has bestowed upon us you see the free will allows us to either obey God or disobey God so obviously God has already given us all these rules to follow and all the conditions to follow but then we also have the the choice to not follow to be disobedient to follow somebody else and that is I think probably the reason so even the people might say that their religious and might be preaching a lot but when it comes to practice it's completely different you see you it takes a lot of willpower to put into practice many things that is very easy to preach because to speak is quite easy but like they say that your actions speak louder than words so that is something which most people notice including yourself when you were mentioning about a certain Imam or whoever that was yeah so yeah I think it's it's it's it's a common practice I think in which I would say it's kind of universal even if you're not you don't need to be religious to understand that isn't it so even an atheist I don't think 80s out there are all bad in terms of there are many atheists who have good characters yeah who might be honest and sincere but then that doesn't mean that they aren't atheists who are the opposite of that so yeah actions speak louder than words in all cases regardless of your beliefs religion often talks about chosen ones and chosen for instance saying if you believe in this they might not believe in a certain religion and feelings on mystic Christianity they might have an understanding of Christianity about how the fast can walk throughout history and it's not quite actually 100% what it should've not given the message of exactly what it should be say things have been taken so one reason they might choose to kind of say yeah I think like I said is something universal you don't need to tell someone not to kill yes because they know to kill is wrong this is something intrinsic in human beings yes to be good but then like I said depending on your environment you live in depending depending on the people you associate with depending on many other factors yes and I personally believe there are other factors like Satan as one who influences or maybe that the the money you have the amount of money you have can corrupt yourself so lots of factors play a role in your community so if your father is someone who is a saint and he's learned all his life in a good works and charity and so it's not necessarily that the son of that father who is a saint is automatically a saint you see it depends on many factors which I just mentioned so there are a lot of things and that's and that's why I believe that something like religion it keeps you rooted in those morality which which I think the eight is on our basis for so the Atheist might think these things not to kill not to steal is good so this is something that's universal and I believe you don't need a religion to understand those things but there are many other things where you have to understand unless you have like some sort of objective morality yes there won't be any consequences for you so say for example I don't know some someone might say that what is wrong in me stealing from so on this government who basically stole it from my father or something you know they just kind of make up some sort of justification for stealing you see I mean yeah but as human beings we can do this you know we can't just make up things but you see in religion is a bit different I'll tell you why because in religion there's consequence yes so maybe for an 80s they believe that after we die that's it that's the end you see what I mean there's no consequence so someone like hitting it yeah who might be an atheist and might kill millions of people if he can get away with it he will get away with it and say okay I'm gonna do this and and get away with it and there's no yeah that's wrong it's wrong absolutely I'm not saying look I'm not saying just because they are religious or just because they are atheists yes yeah as far as I'm concerned the end result is you kill innocent people whether you call yourself a Muslim like the ISIS and all you claiming or like the KKK or the Crusades who will claim to be Christians at the end of the day if you're going to kill innocent people without justification of any sort yes just to basically they they might have some justification from their angle obviously but that's that's obvious anyone can see that killing innocent human beings is wrong but they do not see that because they try to justify it by hook or by crook so in case of people who claim whatever they claim yes if they are religious many of them they know that there is going to be consequence and because of this consequence they they are going to not commit that crime which they would have committed and there was no consequence use religion as a justification and it could be stated so clearly within the religion F is wrong however they will find some justification to make it sound right and to make it say I am do this it could be any ideology doesn't have to be it could be communism who don't believe in our religions it could be any ideology but you see what I'm saying is that when a religion do they see the same yeah because they they have justified to themselves then what they're doing is correct you said I mean that's why they don't see the consequences so from there from that perspective they see that this what they're doing is correct yes like for example burning someone in a cage or something yes which is to us it would be something unthinkable gruesome and act so even if that prisoner was someone who was a criminal or something to burn them alive yes it's completely horrendous but the way they justified is that oh look these guys are raining bombs on us that is kind of burning so that's how they justify it but when you actually take them to the text yes which they claim or they allegedly follow yes over there it clearly says you should not even burn bodies which have been lying in our battlefield that means the ones that have already died you do not mutilate them now this is the the what he said the law for people who are dead can you imagine the law for people who are life so the right of a prisoner the right the right of people who are under your authority this is something taken very seriously in Islam so the rights of everyone regardless of what position they are is something well defined in the Sharia but that's a reason we call these the fringe groups yes so they are not someone who represents the mainstream body of Muslims understand however there are certain things I mean how I normally judge a religion is based the scripture if the scripture says something then you cannot get away from it because ultimately if you believe that scripture is from God then you have no one else other than your God to blame for that if there is something which is morally wrong for example I do not believe that it is morally right to kill an innocent being yes and I do not believe that salvation is only through human sacrifice which I believe is the case in the case of Christianity because they believe that without this crucifixion there is no salvation that's why I don't want to go into blaming people because examples of people doing you know now if Jesus was a divine being as people would like to tell me this divine being wouldn't be killed by something that other people I also think I also have not I believe there's a lot of Scripture a lot of text taking away out of the Bible I speak about Jesus would this notion of salvation too so what is your belief in terms of salvation do you believe there's such a thing as salvation okay salvation I mean from the brief definition I can give is basically you being saved in other words in the case of the brahmic faith is like you attain paradise eventually and that is that is you being saved on the day of judgment from the punishment which will be the case the question is not more aspire in question is how will you reach what is the conditions of our criteria for you to reach salvation attain salvation my life situation but how would you know something is good those are the main things like murder and stuff like that but there are many things in your life which which many people with so let me ask you this somebody in the Nazi army their intention was to follow the leader and they believed the leader was right yes and they believe that everything that he was doing was justified would you consider them that intention it's not about hating it's about one necessarily because why would it not condemn someone who's oppressing other people because he the belief from my understanding is that the people that he thought he had to oppress were the bad and if if within his environment there have been a group identified as the bad people because within our environment see you have actually answered my question you remember I told you about good and bad being subjective yes so in other words you're telling me that as long as their intention was good yes even though they were doing so this is something no but if you if you have convinced yourself yes like it could be so if if you convince yourself if you are a Nazi soldier and you convince yourself when you're doing this right so you're saying that even though the consequences of what they were doing was horrendous justified like giving yourself justification but I was thinking what the intention you said the intention is right then they should be you should blame them isn't what you said yeah so even if the intention was right remember once you convince yourself now your intention is going to be right because you have already convinced yourself that what you're doing is justified objective good and bad okay let me give an example today most of the people think drone strikes and this is about they've done a survey and they say the sex 67% of people would rather have and a drone strike rather than an army going and taking out the enemy or something like that because of the because of the low consequences for the soldiers yes I mean sorry in terms of the there's no human casualties as price yes on that side many of the government's today they have noise no problem whatsoever to send drones to countries which are sovereign yes like for example Pakistan and Afghanistan even these are sovereign nations they have their own what is say their own Parliament that they have their own system of governance and so on and they are not under some sort of military rule or something but then it is okay for people like

P2 – Im Looking! Hashim & Jordan (Agnostic) | Speakers Corner | Hyde Park

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